Sunday, November 20, 2005


Two people were shot last night during an attack on the extreme nationalist Chrysi Avgi (Golden Dawn) offices in Athens. It is not clear who did the shooting. Brief details here from ERT

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At 11/20/2005 09:40:00 PM, Blogger Mike said...

Jeez-us. What is going on here? Throwing Molotov cocktails is bad enough, using firearms is WAY outta line. (Didn't they read Mel's Diner? National Ammo Day was U.S. ONLY!)

The guys who threw the Molotovs need a good slap. The guys with the shooters, they need locking up.

At 11/20/2005 09:58:00 PM, Blogger deviousdiva said...

Like I say I am not sure who did the shooting but this is a definate escalation in the long running battle between Golden Dawn and the anti-facists. I will try and find more information and post it as soon as I get it. I believe the government should take a stand against the facists here in Greece. I know all about the freedom of speech argument and democracy, but I think groups that incite racial hatred can and should be banned. Some of the leaders of Chrysi Avgi are criminals and certainly some of the members. Remember the incident I posted the other day about the stabbing of the lad in Monistiraki. This story is only one of many that haven't made the news. They are becoming more violent and we are seeing their anti-foreigner views being demonstrated on the streets.

At 11/20/2005 10:02:00 PM, Blogger Mike said...

Damn good find! I'd looked on their home page earlier, didn't spot it - no wonder,it's buried beneath (earlier?) stories on "Wintry Scenery" and "Spoilt Foodstuffs on Rhodes". WTF!?!

At 11/21/2005 07:56:00 AM, Blogger adfjkaj said...

What's funny about these Chrysi Avgi (Golden Dawn types) is don't they realize that their members are Greeks (many of whom are dark skinned as some Greeks are) and if they truly are believing that crap they spew, then how can allow themselves to be in an organziation (nazi type) that essentially discriminates against Greeks (themselves). Remember, Hitler's chosen were blond hair and blue eyes, and didn't look like too many Greeks I've seen. I think that even the nasty KKK in America was against Greek immigrants. Maybe they don't realize that their whole nazi type movement is against them and their skin color. I'm sure they wouldn't be welcomed in Germany's extremest groups. The analogy I could use is that it's like a woman falling in love with a serial killer who kills and hates women. That's what's comical to me. Does anyone else see the foolishness in this.

At 11/21/2005 08:49:00 AM, Blogger deviousdiva said...

Well, scruffy american, I think lots of people see the foolishness in this bunch of extremists and as has been stated before greeks are considered "different by many people in Europe and the states. This has been disputed here on this blog by (very) few, but still disputed. I have heard so many "casual" racist remarks against greeks in england it's just not funny. There is the idea in these nazi groups though that the greeks are a pure and homogenous and therefore are allowed to "join" them. It serves their purpose to have members from many countries even if, in the end, greeks would be dispensed of. After all some of the top german nazis (back then in their "glory days") were not german, let alone blonde and blue eyed. They needed leaders and it didn't matter who the leaders were, as long as they had them, to gain support amongst the people. The BNP in england are doing the same thing.

At 11/21/2005 04:17:00 PM, Blogger adfjkaj said...

Sounds like these folks are generally not the brighest bulbs in the pack anyways.

At 11/21/2005 05:58:00 PM, Blogger BallAndDust said...


Don't have much time to comment, but what is the "BNP" in England?


At 11/21/2005 06:13:00 PM, Blogger deviousdiva said...

Sorry, I didn't make it clear. The BNP are the British National Party. The have gained ground over recent years and have seats in local governments. For information on the campaign against the BNP go here go here

At 11/21/2005 10:32:00 PM, Blogger adfjkaj said...

Is the BNP similar to Le Pen's (sic) people in France?

Also: Ball and Dust (Kosta). My thread on discussing our history stuff is up on on my site now. I haven't seen you there and wondered if you are still going to visit.

At 11/21/2005 10:41:00 PM, Blogger deviousdiva said...

BNP and Le Pen? Pretty much yes.

BTW. You are going to have to be patient building your blog readership. people will come eventually, but as I said before, it can take months. You may get readers who come but never comment. Give it a while.

A very gentle hint; people will get miffed if you use their blogs to advertise yours. Please don't take offence. I say this to help you not to tell you off. You are new to blogging so bound to make some mistakes in the beginning.

At 11/21/2005 11:20:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

running battle between Golden Dawn and the anti-facists

The golden dawn is a bunch of jacka$$es for sure, but the ultra left groups you call "anti-fascist" are profoundly more violent and have been so in Greece for a long time.

I know all about the freedom of speech argument and democracy, but I think groups that incite racial hatred can and should be banned.
The real question is what do you do in a country like Greece, which of course has freedom of speech, freedom of assemly and freedom to be a moron? The US has organized Nazi parties with offices, pamphlets, rallies etc. Even the KKK is legal of course and still active.

"Inciting racial hatred" is legal in the US.

On to the violence itself. I spoke with a friend at AP Athens. The Chryssi Avgi office was attacked by violent extrmists with molotovs. Those attackers need to start getting imprisoned in Greece. there has been a long tolerance of leftist violence in Greece such as often seen at the Nov 17 "demonstrations." No one has cared because the violence has been directed against Americans/American interests.

At 11/21/2005 11:43:00 PM, Blogger deviousdiva said...

They are actually anti facist but this in no way means they are not violent and extreme as well. I have never said the extreme left was any less violent than the extreme right. Personally, I think extreme groups should be banned everywhere if their policies are an incitement to violence (racial, religious or otherwise). I don't know how this can be done. I am not a legal expert but I know that there are groups that are trying to get rid of these groups using the law. I do not condone the violence on either side. I am worried about the escalation in recent times. Throwing molotovs, burning cars is bad enough. Now we have people stabbing and shooting each other. Where do you draw the line? I would say right here.

At 11/22/2005 12:23:00 AM, Blogger adfjkaj said...


Thanks for the advice. I didn't realize that making a comment and asking someone to visit was a big deal, but I'll be more cautious about that. I've actually only done that on a few people's sites that I've spoken with on your blog. I hope I didn't offend anyone by that. I certainly thought my inflammatory posts between kosta and ethno would have been more problem that posting an ad.

And, finally, Balls n Dust actually asked me to put up a thread and I just reminded him it was there.

But, again, I'll be more careful not to pressure anyone to visit my site. I have to admit I am excited though.


At 11/22/2005 12:42:00 AM, Blogger deviousdiva said...

Scruffy American, No-one is offended. Trust me. Just glad I can help someone else get into this mad depraved world we call blogging! Actually I don't mind inflammatory posts but I do draw the line at outright insults. I am fairly new to blogging myself( since June only) and I have only deleted one or two posts so far.I am really glad you have found the passion to start your own blog. I am happy that I was a small part of that. Happy blogging.

Now I am guilty of going off topic way too often, but hey, this is my blog!

At 11/22/2005 08:22:00 AM, Blogger adfjkaj said...

Thank you for being patient with me. I sort of consider you like my sponsor and a mentor for this blog stuff. Plus, hey we both are foreigners in Greece who press for our rights. At any rate, thanks again for your help.

At 11/23/2005 08:26:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

A few points:
1. Scruffy, that is one seriously ugly avatar man. Good on yez!On another point here is a tidbit from everyones favourite southern bedsheet wearing bunch:

"When cotton grows on the fig tree
And alfalfa hangs on the rose
When the aliens run the United States
And the Jews grow a straight nose
When the Pope is praised by every one
In the land of Uncle Sam
And a Greek is elected President
THEN-the Ku Klux won't be worth a damn."

Right up there with the Jews and the Pope. It's enough to make me cry in pride. That's not mere dislike. They really hate us! You can warm your heart further reading these (I am sure DD will love it, no shame in that girl, enjoy):

2. DD Where do I start. First the GD are indeed evil but not in the way you think. They are a remnant of the old right wing, the parastate that in its "glory" days of the 60's and 70's could cause "accidentes" and "dissapear" people. I lost family to them. The fact that they had firearms is no accident nor the fact that the organisation has not been yet disbanded. That said the "anti-fascists" (your fawning over them was pathetic, there is nothing more fascist than imposing your views with violence) are the flip side of that coin. They too have their uses, as you notice none have been arrested this Nov. 17 either.
The term I believe would be "safety valve", let the plebs blow off some steam now and then and they 'll stay in line. Both are equally dangerous, but you labour under the misaprehension that they are on your side.

Now as for Greek neonazis, well that is almost as stupid as hearing about jewish ones. Let's not forget how many hundreads of thousands of our people died during the occupation and in the war against the nazis and fascists. I lost family to them too.Again though that is missing the point. These scum are in it for a chance to bash heads and break things, on both sides of the line. Philosophical and political points would involve far too many multisyllable words to be of any interest to them.


At 11/24/2005 09:40:00 AM, Blogger adfjkaj said...


I really don't look like my avatar. I just think it fits my scruffy image. I really enjoyed the "Greek Hall of Shame" web site. Although there was certainly a bunch of crap on there, I couldn't help but notice many true issues on that site, most importantly the Greeks ignoring the slaughtering that the Serbs were doing. That really hit home. I've lived in Greece for the past 20 years, and I rarely see any negative-Serb news or Pro-American news. It just doesn't happen. But, again I enjoyed your post and hope to see you around on future postings.

At 11/24/2005 01:08:00 PM, Blogger deviousdiva said...

Jason wrote
"your fawning over them was pathetic"

I'm not sure if you mean me but I don't see it in anything I wrote?

Also you say
"you labour under the misaprehension that they are on your side"

I certainly have never said that. Maybe you misread what I wrote?

As far the rest of what you write, I agree. That you for your input.


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